29 Jun 2007 Minutes
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Fred Baker, Cisco/ISOC BOT
Dawit Bekele, ISOC Staff
Sebastian Bellagamba, ISOC Staff
Vint G. Cerf, Google (ICANN Chair)
Lyman Chapin, Interisle
Kevin Craemer, ISOC Staff
Raul Echeberria, LACNIC
Patrick Fältström, Cisco/ISOC BOT
Erika Goedrich, ARIN
Ted Hardie, Qualcomm
Erik Huizer, NOB, ISOC BOT
Ed Juskevicius, Nortel (AC Chair)
Daniel Karrenberg, Ripe/ISOC BOT
Megan Kruse, ARIN
Tim Lance, NYSERnet
Anne Lord, ISOC
Mark Luker, EDUCAUSE
Roelof Meijer, SIDN/.NL
Desiree Miloshevic, Afilias/ISOC BOT
Ram Mohan, Afilias
Terry Monroe, ISOC Staff
Mike Nelson, IBM (via phone)
Jon Peterson, Neustar (via phone)
Ray Plzak, ARIN
Glenn Ricart, Price Waterhouse Coopers/ISOC BOT
Lynn St. Amour, ISOC President
Mark Thalhimer, ISOC Staff
Nick Trio, IBM (AC Secretary)
Terry Weigler, ISOC Staff
Ed Juskevicius called the Advisory Council (AC) meeting to order at 7:30 AM and introductions were done around the room.
Vint Cerf (Chairman of the board of ICANN, and ISOC AC representative for Google) addressed the Advisory Council for approximately one hour on a range of topics, notably:
- Current status of Internet deployment and usage
- IPv4 address space run-out, and the need to stimulate IPv6 deployment
- Issues surrounding IDN introduction at the top level
- DNSSEC deployment
- ISOC’s role in addressing important Internet issues outside of ICANN’s specific mandate
Vint reported that the Internet has approximately 1.1 billion users today, and more than 430 million hosts. In September 2006, the number of hosts was 439 million but then it decreased to 433 million at the end of 2006. The reasons for the decrease in the number of hosts are not known, but may be related to some hosts being hidden by network address translation devices (NATs). Of note to ISOC is that although 1.1 billion users is a lot, there are another 5.5 billion people who are not on the Net.
There are more than 2 billion mobile phones in use today, with an additional 1 billion mobile devices to be deployed this year. Many of these will be Internet-enabled. Perhaps half of the new devices will be purchased to replace older ones, while the rest will add to the total number of mobile devices. Vint raised questions including:
- Given that mobile (device) interfaces are inexpensive and widespread, why are we not designing new applications for them?”
- Why, for example, has the industry not found a way to allow travelers to use television sets in hotel rooms to display data from mobile devices?
Vint also noted that while broadband access penetration is increasing, the “Net experience” is impaired for many users. ADSL provides for very good video downloading, but it is not as good for uploading. The growing popularity of sites like Google Video, YouTube demonstrate a demand for symmetric access.
- Vint stated that he views the current state of Broadband access as being in a temporary plateau.
Vint also talked about signing the root (DNS). In answer to a question about whether the root would be signed before Vint leaves the ICANN Board, he answered:
- “Probably not, and the reason is not technical. A question has arisen about whether ICANN has the authority to sign the root, and the answer to this is up at about Layer 12 of the unsolvable.”
Daniel Karrenberg commented that ISPs operate resolvers, and the level of effort needed to maintain trust chains and trust anchors is frustrating. Could ICANN make a collection of trust anchors available to ISPs (e.g. via IANA)?
Glenn Ricart suggested ICANN might get around the Layer 12 problem by “digitally verifying the contents of the root files”.
Following Vint’s remarks, the Advisory Council (AC) engaged him in a discussion on the transition to IPv6 and DNSSEC deployment. With respect to IPv4 to IPv6 transition, Vint suggested the discussion should focus on interoperability and that the message should not be that everyone must turn off IPv4, but rather that everyone should add IPv6 to allow for improved interoperability.
Several members of the AC commented that ISPs need a business plan to move to IPv6, and that many of them do not have this plan today. The end-user perception of the IPv6 infrastructure is often of a lower quality of service than IPv4.
- A content provider recently added an IPv6 stack, and then received some congratulatory messages from users in Japan (where everyone is on IPv6). A few hours later, the provider received complaints that the IPv6 performance was lower than before (when they were on IPv4).
- The were many reasons for the perceived decrease in quality of service and they almost certainly included that connectivity to the site was a patchwork of a tunnel here plus a tunnel there plus …
Daniel Karrenberg asked if ISOC should play a role in educational activities to get the facts out and also if the AC could do work to develop a business plan for IPv6.
- Vint observed that the industry has no deadline-like driver to get everyone to move, like Y2K. Without such a deadline, other approaches may be needed, such as increasing the level of understanding among users that having IPv6 at both ends of a connection would be best for interoperability.
- Erik Huizer mentioned that some people in Holland are exploring ways to stimulate end-user demand for IPv6 as an alternative to investing in migration plans. One way to do this could be to generate new high quality content and make it available (for free) on new IPv6-only servers.
- Fred Baker reported that his customers are asking questions about how to make IPv4 cable modems work in the same network as IPv6.
Following Vint’s remarks, Lynn St. Amour opened a discussion on other topics of interest to the Advisory Council. Discussion continued on the IPv4 to IPv6 transition and what ISOC could do. Several of AC members said they would like to see ISOC take a leadership role in education relating to the IPv6 transition. Desiree Miloshevic recommended that ISOC Chapters be part of future education efforts.
Mike Nelson talked about an OECD Ministerial Meeting being planned for June 2008 in Seoul, South Korea on “The Future of the Internet Economy”. Lynn St.Amour noted that ISOC staff has been advising the OECD on its draft agenda, including proposed topics and speakers.
The Advisory Council also discussed what ISOC could do regarding DNSSEC. Several members felt that the issue was caught up in politics and was more appropriate an issue for ICANN to address. Lynn noted that ISOC’s policy activities had proven effective in educating those governments which were less involved in the politics surrounding this issue.
Ed Juskevicius, the AC chair, adjourned the meeting at 9AM.
Vint Cerf discusses 'Challenges for the Internet' with ISOC Advisory Council
- Current status of Internet deployment and usage;
- IPv4 address space run-out, and the need to stimulate IPv6 deployment;
- Issues surrounding IDN introduction at the top level;
- DNSSEC deployment;
- ISOC's role in addressing important Internet issues outside of ICANN's specific mandate.